I am in a quandary. I have a slide set up. You can only see the "View response layer" if you selected that question. I want the students to be required to view all responses for the questions they selected, before the next button becomes viable.
The client now has changed their mind to have them see the responses this way. I can easily get the next button to change if they view one response by changing if any view responses is the state is visited. But I can't all visited states of the responses that are possible. Make sense?
Thanks,
Tamarah
P.S.
I have now posted this in scormcloud to view the entire module. These checkboxes work in slide view and entire project view. But when I load them into scomcloud they do not. Any thoughts? THANKS!
Try this. I made some changes and I think it does what you want:
1. I simplified the general design. It required three clicks to see each response, and I was afraid Ashley would die before I finished the initial assessment.
2. As before, the NEXT button is enabled if the user checks any response, but if they click NEXT before viewing responses 1-4, it doesn't jump. Instead it shows the message to view the responses. (By the way, I deleted the extra.) If it were mine, I wouldn't bother with it, because they only have to view any response to enable it, but can't advance until they view them all. Seems pointless to me to disable it in the first place.
3. As you found out, it is never a good idea to use "When state of ... is ..." in the when part of a trigger. Sometimes it works, but it is never predictable. Think about it "state is" is a condition, not an action. Since there is no action, there is nothing to tell the trigger to fire. The times those triggers work, they are on the receiving end of a happy combination of the right phase of the moon, the designer writing the trigger when they were holding their mouth just right, and an elaborate (and largely misunderstood) combination of cpu timing. It's not your fault your triggers don't work, the programmers should never have put them in the when section of the trigger wizard. They should be put in the condition section, where they function correctly. "Do this when this action occurs, IF state of... is ..." It makes sense, because they are conditions. So I re-wrote your triggers to fire when an action occurs, if a condition is true, or not true. I think you will find that a simpler approach makes the logic easier to follow and trouble shoot.
4. I maintained the logic I think you were intending:
a. the user cannot advance until they see responses 1- 4, but I didn't know how to handle it if they check 5.
b. initial evaluation is set to 2 when they leave, if 1 - 4 have been visited.
c. PtTotalScore1 has 4 added to if only if they have visited 1-4.
d. They are allowed to advance only if they have visited 1 - 5 (in any order.)
Thanks for responding. Here is what the client wants:
1. They choose whether or not to choose to ask a question. (They could choose to ask only one or all of them. )
2, Based upon whether they ask the question they get a point towards the final score. Each question have a different value based upon their relevance towards their patient. (The module actually has 4 patients.)
3. If they ask the question they must view the response for that question. If they don't ask the question the response is not shown.
4. They must view all the responses of the questions they asked .
5. Once they view all the responses for their questions they asked the next button is enabled.
I previously had the slide set up similarly to how you had it with viewing all the responses However, the client changed their mind to this format.
1. They choose whether or not to choose to ask a question.
I believe that choice is made by clicking the View Response button.
2. Based upon whether they ask the question they get a point towards the final score. Each question have a different value based upon their relevance towards their patient.
I moved the scoring to the EXIT button, where the score is added up according to which layers show as visited. This prevents inaccurate scores caused if someone revisits one of the layers. (I didn't do anything to protect against the slide being revisited.) I made each question 1 point, but that is easy to change.
3. If they ask the question they must view the response for that question. If they don't ask the question the response is not shown.
This is how it is. I just don't add an extra layer of abuse to the user to make them make a choice to ask the question, then make a choice to hear the answer. I think this way is more like how it will be done in real life.
4. They must view all the responses of the questions they asked.
This is how it is. Nothing can force them to read it, but asking the question exposes them to the answer.
5. Once they view all the responses for their questions they asked the next button is enabled.
It is set up to enable the NEXT button after they have seen the response to all the questions they want to ask. A subtle difference, but this way allows them to decide to add or delete a question based on the answers to other questions.
Not your fault, but making the learner decide the questions all at once, then take another action to sit through the answers doesn't align very well with what we know about how people learn, on several levels. Besides that, it's not very realistic. Your course is when the learner is making a list of the questions they want to ask. When they get on the scene, they don't make a list, then ask the questions, they just ask. It sounds to me like your clients are more concerned about what the learners might do or not do, and how they can keep control of them, than they are about whether the learners actually learn something.
Not my first choice, but slide 2 does ask the learner if they are through asking questions before going to the next slide, which may give a bit of the illusion that they are forcing the learner to view all the questions they want before going on. And if they are still adamant about abusing the learner, slide 3 does that.
Feel free to ignore my rants. It's just that I happen to think "Instruction" is the critical component in "instructional design", and "learning" is the part of "E-Learning" that matters, even though it means I am frequently in the minority, even on this forum.
As I am new to e-learning and this is not my not in background, I sincerely thank you for your time and assistance. It has helped me look at the project at a different angle. This client has 7 of this modules built in the same manner so I wanted to get this right.
Any ideas of why the check boxes were not showing up on Scormcloud when I uploaded it? Since not only does the Learner have to do an evaluation but there are check boxes in the assessment and treatment phases.
6 Replies
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Tamarah,
Try this. I made some changes and I think it does what you want:
1. I simplified the general design. It required three clicks to see each response, and I was afraid Ashley would die before I finished the initial assessment.
2. As before, the NEXT button is enabled if the user checks any response, but if they click NEXT before viewing responses 1-4, it doesn't jump. Instead it shows the message to view the responses. (By the way, I deleted the extra.) If it were mine, I wouldn't bother with it, because they only have to view any response to enable it, but can't advance until they view them all. Seems pointless to me to disable it in the first place.
3. As you found out, it is never a good idea to use "When state of ... is ..." in the when part of a trigger. Sometimes it works, but it is never predictable. Think about it "state is" is a condition, not an action. Since there is no action, there is nothing to tell the trigger to fire. The times those triggers work, they are on the receiving end of a happy combination of the right phase of the moon, the designer writing the trigger when they were holding their mouth just right, and an elaborate (and largely misunderstood) combination of cpu timing. It's not your fault your triggers don't work, the programmers should never have put them in the when section of the trigger wizard. They should be put in the condition section, where they function correctly. "Do this when this action occurs, IF state of... is ..." It makes sense, because they are conditions. So I re-wrote your triggers to fire when an action occurs, if a condition is true, or not true. I think you will find that a simpler approach makes the logic easier to follow and trouble shoot.
4. I maintained the logic I think you were intending:
a. the user cannot advance until they see responses 1- 4, but I didn't know how to handle it if they check 5.
b. initial evaluation is set to 2 when they leave, if 1 - 4 have been visited.
c. PtTotalScore1 has 4 added to if only if they have visited 1-4.
d. They are allowed to advance only if they have visited 1 - 5 (in any order.)
Walt,
Thanks for responding. Here is what the client wants:
1. They choose whether or not to choose to ask a question. (They could choose to ask only one or all of them. )
2, Based upon whether they ask the question they get a point towards the final score. Each question have a different value based upon their relevance towards their patient. (The module actually has 4 patients.)
3. If they ask the question they must view the response for that question. If they don't ask the question the response is not shown.
4. They must view all the responses of the questions they asked .
5. Once they view all the responses for their questions they asked the next button is enabled.
I previously had the slide set up similarly to how you had it with viewing all the responses However, the client changed their mind to this format.
Any thoughts?
Tamarah
1. They choose whether or not to choose to ask a question.
I believe that choice is made by clicking the View Response button.
2. Based upon whether they ask the question they get a point towards the final score. Each question have a different value based upon their relevance towards their patient.
I moved the scoring to the EXIT button, where the score is added up according to which layers show as visited. This prevents inaccurate scores caused if someone revisits one of the layers. (I didn't do anything to protect against the slide being revisited.) I made each question 1 point, but that is easy to change.
3. If they ask the question they must view the response for that question. If they don't ask the question the response is not shown.
This is how it is. I just don't add an extra layer of abuse to the user to make them make a choice to ask the question, then make a choice to hear the answer. I think this way is more like how it will be done in real life.
4. They must view all the responses of the questions they asked.
This is how it is. Nothing can force them to read it, but asking the question exposes them to the answer.
5. Once they view all the responses for their questions they asked the next button is enabled.
It is set up to enable the NEXT button after they have seen the response to all the questions they want to ask. A subtle difference, but this way allows them to decide to add or delete a question based on the answers to other questions.
Not your fault, but making the learner decide the questions all at once, then take another action to sit through the answers doesn't align very well with what we know about how people learn, on several levels. Besides that, it's not very realistic. Your course is when the learner is making a list of the questions they want to ask. When they get on the scene, they don't make a list, then ask the questions, they just ask. It sounds to me like your clients are more concerned about what the learners might do or not do, and how they can keep control of them, than they are about whether the learners actually learn something.
Not my first choice, but slide 2 does ask the learner if they are through asking questions before going to the next slide, which may give a bit of the illusion that they are forcing the learner to view all the questions they want before going on. And if they are still adamant about abusing the learner, slide 3 does that.
Feel free to ignore my rants. It's just that I happen to think "Instruction" is the critical component in "instructional design", and "learning" is the part of "E-Learning" that matters, even though it means I am frequently in the minority, even on this forum.
Walt,
As I am new to e-learning and this is not my not in background, I sincerely thank you for your time and assistance. It has helped me look at the project at a different angle. This client has 7 of this modules built in the same manner so I wanted to get this right.
Any ideas of why the check boxes were not showing up on Scormcloud when I uploaded it? Since not only does the Learner have to do an evaluation but there are check boxes in the assessment and treatment phases.
Did I miss a setting there too?
With appreciation,
Tamarah
Tamarah,
If you uploaded the version I made, I took the checkboxes out. If it was your version that had checkboxes that got lost, I really have no idea.
Walt,
Thanks for all your advice and time.
Tamarah
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