State change problem

Hi Steve

I cut the selected state text info and repasted it - I think it was holding onto the question text underneath.

That doesn't make sense to me. I tried to cut and repaste it in both the selected state and the normal state, but it doesn't change anything. Did you delete the state and start over?

How can it hold onto the text?

I downloaded your file and it works perfectly. I am still confused why mine doesn't work. I tried starting from scratch and created a new rectangle with different states and it still has both states visible when I click on the rectangle.

Hi Steve. This is my interpretation of how Storyline is implementing states and why it is causing your problem...

It looks like maybe you added the Question text to the rectangle by editing the Normal state and adding a text box on top of the rectangle? Then you added the Selected State to the original rectangle and added another text box. 

So in Normal State, you have not just the rectangle, but two objects: the rectangle and a text box (we'll call it text box A). Text box A is not part of the rectangle; it is part of a state of the rectangle, which is a key point in how SL implements states I think.

When you are editing a state in SL, SL only shows the original object under consideration so you can make changes to the state of that object. It doesn't show the changes made in another state. So when you are editing Selected State, you can't see (or modify) changes made in Normal State. Therefore, you can't see Text Box A (from Normal State) when you are editing Selected State. And therefore you can't tell SL "Do not show Text Box A from Normal State when in Selected State."

So now in Normal State you have the rectangle and text field A, and in Selected State, you have the rectangle and text field B.

When viewing as a learner, Storyline doesn't replace one state with another state, it just shows what was added or changed in the state. You can see this easily by creating a rectangle, and then in normal state add a red circle to the left side of the rectangle, and in selected state add a blue circle to the right side. If you run the slide and click the rectangle, in selected state you will see both circles. That is what is happening with your text boxes; one appears in Normal State and the other is added in Selected State. SL doesn't know to get rid of the original text box A from Normal State.

That behavior is as I would expect it to be. I wouldn't want SL to hide normal state objects when the state changes, unless I specifically tell it to. The question to me is not why does your slide work the way it does (because to me it works as expected); the real question is how did Wendy get it to work the way she did?  :-)  How did you do that Wendy? :-)

I think the simplest solution for you, Steve, is to make the text part of the rectangle rather than separate text boxes associated with the different states? Select Edit Text for the rectangle and paste in the Question text. Then add the Selected State and edit the rectangle text  to be the Answer text. Now the text in both states is part of the rectangle, rather than separate objects associated with the different states. Would that accomplish what you are doing?

Hope this helps.

Chris

That makes sense. I think I was trying to do too much with states. Layers might be the way to go if I need to add more shapes and text boxes. Thank you for the detailed explanation. 

But I guess I'm still confused. I got the original of this from Tom Kuhlmann. He has added other elements to his original shape and created a different state for it. It seems to work just fine.

In his Selected State, Tom has an opaque rectangle behind the Answer text that obscures the original Question text. You don't have that on yours.

Chris,

I believe you are probably right about how states are handled.

Still, the problem persists. In Wendy's file, she has an opaque rectangle behind the text on the selected state, which obscures the text in the normal state. Steve's original file has the same opaque rectangle, which doesn't obscure the text on the normal state. So I'm thinking it may also have something to do with the creation of the selected state; either the process, or the sequence.

Hi Walt. I don't see the opaque rectangle in Steve's version in selected state, just the original rectangle and a transparent text field.  The rectangle in his selected state is the original rectangle, not an additional opaque rectangle. Unless I'm missing something, which is always a possibility. :-) 

Here's what I see when I download the attachment from the original post.

Ah! A sneaky extra rectangle behind the selected text. Darn it Tom. You didn't explain that in your YouTube video. :)

Thanks for pointing out the rectangle.

Hi Walt. Yes, that is the same original rectangle you are dragging around in both states. You are just changing the location of the original rectangle in the two states.  If you look at Wendy's or Tom's, go to the Selected State and drag the rectangle. You'll see there's a second rectangle there in addition to the original rectangle.

So, one last thing. When I duplicate my rectangle (with the other rectangles and text boxes) it shifts everything down, but not equally. So now I have to adjust each item manually.

Chris,

You may be right about Steve's rectangles, but I don't see the second one in Wendy's file. And we are still left with the original question: Why does hers work? And also, how did the action she described (cutting text in selected state and pasting it back) change it? Because it doesn't for me.

Ahh...took me a minute to figure that one out Walt.  Look's like Wendy's rectangle in her Selected State is NOT the original rectangle - you can see they are different colors (her Selected State rectangle matches the color of Tom's secondary opaque rectangle). The original rectangle is nowhere to be seen. So I think that in her cutting and pasting, she deleted the original rectangle while in the Selected State, and left the secondary opaque rectangle which blocks the original text.

Which is really interesting. So you can have an object, with a normal state. Then add a new state for the object, and in that new state, you can delete the original object which the new state represents. But you still have the new state even though the original object has been deleted, and if you go back to Normal State you still have the original object.

Quite a metaphysical brain teaser...

Hi guys

sorry I was catching a plane interstate when I did that quick sample file. Here is a video of what I did.

Thanks, Wendy. No doubt about it, it works.

But I still want to know why. None of my mental models of  SL  comes even close to explaining this.

Thanks Wendy.This confirms what I was seeing in my post above...

You were using Steve's file, which did not have the secondary rectangle in Selected State that Tom used to obscure the underlying rectangle and text that is present in Normal State.

But when you selected all and cut and pasted in Selected State, Storyline cut the original rectangle and pasted the rectangle back down as a separate, different rectangle. You can see this in the video below. When the rectangle was pasted down in Selected State, it is a separate rectangle than the original and now obscures the original text (that resides in Normal State) and is acting like the secondary rectangle in Tom's file.In Preview, you can see that the newly pasted down secondary rectangle in Selected State is obscuring the text from Normal State.

Whew. Strange... Sorta. When you cut the original object in one of its own states and paste the object back down, it is now a separate entity from its original self and is displayed over the top of its original self (Z-order wise I mean). Kind of a reincarnation of sorts.

Chris