I am not sure that in the hundreds of courses I ever attended in my "corporate" life that getting a Certificate was ever in my WIFM list, or ever in the WIFM list of any students on my courses.
At Oracle for example, the WIFM was simple, you kept your job by performance of (new) skills. The WIFM of the 000s of sales staff I have trained over the years was "How can this course help me earn more". Simple.
Proof of learned behaviour and skills comes from things other than a piece of paper on a wall or anywhere else.
Steve's points above are all relevant, however, they certainly do not represent "all" courses.
Bruce, point understood. This is just one of those times when experience trumps a rookie's brainstorm. Rookie reffering to me of course. I agree that Steve does point out a few good points above, and I would like to challenge anyone who wouldn't mind taking on one of the hardest assessments I have ever experienced in my life, to go to the following webpage www.education.us.mn and click on "Microsoft" (when you get to the next page click the arrow pointing to "Digital Literacy") and either take the basic course and assessment, or skip to the basic assessment if you are already knowledgeable in basic computer concepts, and then study the advanced course, and take the advanced assessment. This is all totally free, and I can just about guarentee it will be one of the hardest 90 question tests you will find on the net. I would recomend studying the material for the advanced course more than once, and make sure you are comfortable with the knowledge you've gained, before taking the assessment. If you pass with an 80% or higher score, in my opinion you are an educational master. I have studied the advanced material 4 times, and took the assessments 9x and have failed every time acheiving a score of 79% 4 times. If you pass, you will also receive a printable certificate from Microsoft, as we all know now, isn't worth a small pile of beans, but if I could only acheive passing this test, personally, it would make my decade. No hard feelings if no one wants to accept my challenge, I'm just showing you how important this low-level acheivement means to me, and how it motivates me to continue trying my best to overcome my personal obsticle.
If I ever do pass the above mentioned exam, I will proudly display the certificate, even though it came out of my $99 printer.
It's pretty big (71MB). No speaker notes as I mainly "winged it." Remember--it's a preso and not a course.
Only had less than a day to work on it and it's in our "corporate style," which we are supposed to follow when delivering inside or outside the company. So don't expect an "e-learning work of art."
My one regret is not noticing some of the cool stuff in the "Projects and Workshops" section in the Downloads area here. Jeanette has a neat "engaging e-learning" tutorial and Tom and Dave have some other wonderful stuff.
Hey, Gerry. Loved the presentation. Really nice message alchemy. The community perspectives added a great touch, in my opinion. I hope the audience appreciated the down to earth message packaging.
Gerry - the preso looks great!! You did such a good job with the slides, I didn't even miss the speaker notes. I could actually hear you presenting the slides.
The black/white photos combined with chat/thought clouds is a great design technique. I think understand why Photoshop Friday means so much to you Oh and I'm also glad there weren't any pics of me in that preso.
OT - Where did you find the images? Are they part of an image subscription? I recognized a couple images, but it looks like might be from a collection or subscription.
I have committed to the show, but I haven't committed to the topic yet. May I request ya'all's permission to carry this conversation (as Gerry did) to a live podcast video chat?
Hey, Kevin. No problem from me. I'd say go for it. It's a public forum. Sharing the community and its collective wisdom outside the community seems a great thing, IMVHO. My driving principle in my preso was making sure the people who said what I liked were identified. (i.e., given credit).
The black/white photos combined with chat/thought clouds is a great design technique. I think understand why Photoshop Friday means so much to you OT - Where did you find the images? Are they part of an image subscription? I recognized a couple images, but it looks like might be from a collection or subscription.
Thanks for the kind words (and thank you, too, Steve!).
Yup, I love to do "fun" things that reinforce other talents and can be used elsewhere. And always try to use or create images in my presos that reinforce what I'm trying to do.
Friday Fun, for me, is also another way to share with colleagues and blow off a little work steam. We all work too hard these days and a little laughter or a smile is priceless. I only "pick on" colleagues that I dearly respect (like you and we've PM'ed each other on this) and hope that I never cross a line. Love it when you come back and "zing me." Never want to take myself too seriously.
Also hope (in some small way) that Friday Fun does make the forums a little more fun and draws more folks to come and contribute and learn and stretch their graphic talents. Really like it when folks like Zara take a chance and you see them getting better and better with each "work of art."
As for the antique photos, I use them from time to time in a preso. Actually used them first in my Articulate Live 09 preso. The other thing I do is use funny clipart (if it fits the topic and the audience will "get" it).
When appropriate, I like to use humor that reinforces my message (and hope a little bit of entertainment will keep folks interested and add a little anticipation). Have to do that carefully, though. Don't want it to ever "take over" and detract from the message.
For some topics, that approach won't work. I should be finishing up a HR course this week on "Performance Correction" for supervisors and managers. For that course, trying to get humor in it may not be the best thing.
Yes, I used a subscription service to get all the images--iclipart.com. Go there, select the "Photos" tab and then do a search for "Antique." You'll see the ones I used along with a lot of others.
The creative part is finding a photo or piece of clipart and then finding a way to use that reinforces your slide's message, either directly by itself or by adding a caption or dialogue.
I have committed to the show, but I haven't committed to the topic yet. May I request ya'all's permission to carry this conversation (as Gerry did) to a live podcast video chat?
Thanks! I'll probably mimic a lot of what was shared in this thread along with some of the same things Gerry pointed out in his preso. The eLearn Live chat is fairly new, but it's getting more and more viewers each week. It's simply another channel to reach out to inquisitive minds wanting to learn more about this industry.
So, what is this PhotoShop Friday you speak of? I wanna play!
Geez, just got contacted by the eLearning Guild to do my "engaging" presentation for them in June for one of their online forums.
If I decide to do it, I'll probably be contacting those of you I "used" in my original preso. Want to make sure that you're okay with me "using you" there.
Geez, just got contacted by the eLearning Guild to do my "engaging" presentation for them in June for one of their online forums.
If I decide to do it, I'll probably be contacting those of you I "used" in my original preso. Want to make sure that you're okay with me "using you" there.
Dropbox me the release form and I'll sign it...
Oh I almost forgot, What is the royalty you are offering?
Rockstar! I say we all do a Twitter backchannel chatmob using the hashtag #gerry. While he's presenting we feed him what to say.
Gerry - you simply watch the Twitter stream and we'll coach you through every word. [*evil grin*]
Seriously, congrats! I did one last year. Karen Hyder at the Guild is by far the most professional and experienced in moderating webinars. She takes care of all the magic in the background. All you have to do is talk.
I'm doing the eLearnChat in April on the same topic. Not a presentation so much as just a conversation - a "chat."
In the spirit of Photo Friday I strongly feel that that no one should be "safe" and therefore I will have to settle for "eternal gratitude". Hey hopefully you'll have to return the favor one day.
I am proud to be included (my ego grows bigger). It gives my dad something to brag about and he love to brag about his kids.
When you have a program that takes "that guy" who thinks he know everything and makes him think twice about the criticism of the topic or course or media.
Now that would be an awesome course!
For me engaging elearing is getting the learner to THINK and DO. Learners also like to solve problems.
Personally I like games...not snakes and ladders games...but games that cause me to think, do and solve.
In a recent talk at TED ("The Surprising Science of Motivation"), Daniel Pink reported on the differences in effectiveness in extrinsic vs. instrinsic motivation, with the latter being most effective. According to Pink, the studies show three factors are important:
Autonomy ("The urge to direct our own lives.")
Mastery ("The desire to get better and better at something that matters.")
Purpose ("The yearning to do what we do in the service of something larger than ourselves.")
Translating these factors into e-learning features, we might try:
Autonomy: Give the learner control (over pacing, over navigation, over which content and activities to try and when, etc.)
Mastery: Make sure the examples, the stories, and the activities drive learners toward an exciting improvement in their capabilites in application areas that matter to them.
Purpose: Show how newly acquired skills allow and enable participation in larger-scale pursuits that are meaningful to learners.
To do this, we would need to know something about what is meaningful to our learners, both narrowly (with respect to the specific course material) and broadly (in terms of meaningful purpose to which learners want to apply these skills).
I'm also a little late to this discussion but I do feel there is still something to add. It has been inferred by other statements but nobody has really brought it up as a main point.
One big factor to make courses "engaging" is to make sure to take learning theories and styles into consideration. Not only is it important to have the "WIIFM" factor, but every person might have a very different preference as to what they want for themselves. This means that as instructional designers, we need to make sure that our e-learning is consistent enough to get the job done for the span of audience that we are intending it to go to, while also being versatile enough to offer something for people of every learning style.
I think this is also one of the biggest challenges in online learning - it is often leveraged as a tool to reach many many people, but in the process the very theories behind learning can be forgotten if you don't work hard to make it a part of the design - and a design that is the same for every viewer at that. Wouldn't it be something if we could at least ask a few learning related questions at the beginning of a course, after which a different template might be pulled depending on the user's answers?
It can be argued that good research practices should mean that you will know your audience well enough to basically be able to put them into a 'bucket" you can aim for, but there's no way to get around the inherent nature of us as human beings to filter things in our very own ways as individuals, even if we're trying to keep a particular stance.
I think this is interesting because the conversation between Reed and Bruce seems to prove this point although from a different angle (what you get from a course rather than the content). There can be theories argued either way. To me, this is an extension of learner style, although obviously it can be influenced by external forces like their company's training system and culture. In my experience, at my company, people care a LOT about the certificates. And most of the time it's NOT things that can be transferred over to other companies or programs.
So why do they care? It's just the culture of the company, even though I'm sure they are very aware that just because someone has a lot of certificates doesn't mean they actually can use (or even remember) what they learned for a particular job. They also expect any and everything to show up on their training record - even weight watchers meetings that they attended through the company (the company does not mandate that they document it). There are obviously other human elements at play here that motivate people to see these things as tangible events after the fact.
Also as someone mentioned, if the completion of the course - no matter how "good" it truly was from an instructional design perspective - is meant to give credit under an accreditation system, then a certificate is obviously a good idea regardless of whether or not the learner finds it valuable.
But, back to the original question and my point, I think the one of the best way sto make sure content is engaging is really pay attention to the variety principle and giving learners options. Although at times any one type of learner might not be engaged, hopefully the course can be designed to where many perspectives can be given in a time span that allows everyone to stay alert and interested. And then at the end, if a certificate is not deemed "necessary", why not just offer the option?
I think you guys just gave me the idea for my research paper I'm about to write... the implications of offering or not offering certificates for learning events (in terms of learner effectiveness, not taking into account accreditation standards and such). If we as humans simply retain information better, for example, when we've been "recognized" for the completion, perhaps, then it might be worth considering more seriously.
If it comes to fruition I'll make sure to share my final product with the group!
I think your references to company culture could be particularly apposite - in an interesting way
Perhaps "certificates on walls" are just not appropriate in the types of company that I have chosen to work in, (mainly quite "high-pressure" sales-driven organisations)
Perhaps it is the people/peer-pressure in thise organisations that make the public display of certificates seem as a weakness, and therefore not important.
Perhaps Certiificates from internal courses in some areas of the Public Sector could not be seen as important when the room is full of people with Oxford/Cambridge degrees and post-graduate qualifications?"
I wonder how many of the things I see as "normal", (or not), or eLearning being "engaging", are in fact due to the places where I have chosen to work.
We all choose our perceptions to some extent, through the actions we make.
Linear online learning could be particularly "engaging" in one company or sector for example, if all they have had previously is paper-based learning - certificate or not.
85 Replies
I am not sure that in the hundreds of courses I ever attended in my "corporate" life that getting a Certificate was ever in my WIFM list, or ever in the WIFM list of any students on my courses.
At Oracle for example, the WIFM was simple, you kept your job by performance of (new) skills. The WIFM of the 000s of sales staff I have trained over the years was "How can this course help me earn more". Simple.
Proof of learned behaviour and skills comes from things other than a piece of paper on a wall or anywhere else.
Steve's points above are all relevant, however, they certainly do not represent "all" courses.
Bruce
Bruce, point understood. This is just one of those times when experience trumps a rookie's brainstorm. Rookie reffering to me of course. I agree that Steve does point out a few good points above, and I would like to challenge anyone who wouldn't mind taking on one of the hardest assessments I have ever experienced in my life, to go to the following webpage www.education.us.mn and click on "Microsoft" (when you get to the next page click the arrow pointing to "Digital Literacy") and either take the basic course and assessment, or skip to the basic assessment if you are already knowledgeable in basic computer concepts, and then study the advanced course, and take the advanced assessment. This is all totally free, and I can just about guarentee it will be one of the hardest 90 question tests you will find on the net. I would recomend studying the material for the advanced course more than once, and make sure you are comfortable with the knowledge you've gained, before taking the assessment. If you pass with an 80% or higher score, in my opinion you are an educational master. I have studied the advanced material 4 times, and took the assessments 9x and have failed every time acheiving a score of 79% 4 times. If you pass, you will also receive a printable certificate from Microsoft, as we all know now, isn't worth a small pile of beans, but if I could only acheive passing this test, personally, it would make my decade. No hard feelings if no one wants to accept my challenge, I'm just showing you how important this low-level acheivement means to me, and how it motivates me to continue trying my best to overcome my personal obsticle.
If I ever do pass the above mentioned exam, I will proudly display the certificate, even though it came out of my $99 printer.
Hey, Gerry. Loved the presentation. Really nice message alchemy. The community perspectives added a great touch, in my opinion. I hope the audience appreciated the down to earth message packaging.
Gerry - the preso looks great!! You did such a good job with the slides, I didn't even miss the speaker notes. I could actually hear you presenting the slides.
The black/white photos combined with chat/thought clouds is a great design technique. I think understand why Photoshop Friday means so much to you
Oh and I'm also glad there weren't any pics of me in that preso.
OT - Where did you find the images? Are they part of an image subscription? I recognized a couple images, but it looks like might be from a collection or subscription.
Hey, Kevin. No problem from me. I'd say go for it. It's a public forum. Sharing the community and its collective wisdom outside the community seems a great thing, IMVHO. My driving principle in my preso was making sure the people who said what I liked were identified. (i.e., given credit).
Thanks for the kind words (and thank you, too, Steve!).
Yup, I love to do "fun" things that reinforce other talents and can be used elsewhere. And always try to use or create images in my presos that reinforce what I'm trying to do.
Friday Fun, for me, is also another way to share with colleagues and blow off a little work steam. We all work too hard these days and a little laughter or a smile is priceless. I only "pick on" colleagues that I dearly respect (like you and we've PM'ed each other on this) and hope that I never cross a line. Love it when you come back and "zing me." Never want to take myself too seriously.
Also hope (in some small way) that Friday Fun does make the forums a little more fun and draws more folks to come and contribute and learn and stretch their graphic talents. Really like it when folks like Zara take a chance and you see them getting better and better with each "work of art."
As for the antique photos, I use them from time to time in a preso. Actually used them first in my Articulate Live 09 preso. The other thing I do is use funny clipart (if it fits the topic and the audience will "get" it).
When appropriate, I like to use humor that reinforces my message (and hope a little bit of entertainment will keep folks interested and add a little anticipation). Have to do that carefully, though. Don't want it to ever "take over" and detract from the message.
For some topics, that approach won't work. I should be finishing up a HR course this week on "Performance Correction" for supervisors and managers. For that course, trying to get humor in it may not be the best thing.
Yes, I used a subscription service to get all the images--iclipart.com. Go there, select the "Photos" tab and then do a search for "Antique." You'll see the ones I used along with a lot of others.
The creative part is finding a photo or piece of clipart and then finding a way to use that reinforces your slide's message, either directly by itself or by adding a caption or dialogue.
Kevin--
I think that's a great idea. Best of luck!
Thanks! I'll probably mimic a lot of what was shared in this thread along with some of the same things Gerry pointed out in his preso. The eLearn Live chat is fairly new, but it's getting more and more viewers each week. It's simply another channel to reach out to inquisitive minds wanting to learn more about this industry.
So, what is this PhotoShop Friday you speak of? I wanna play!
It's Friday Fun. And anyone can play.
See the previous two weeks of "fun."
http://community.articulate.com/forums/t/727.aspx
http://community.articulate.com/forums/t/963.aspx
David and I used to do this from time to time in "ye olde forums." The one last December was a "classic encounter." Be gone soon.
I'll be sure and block some time this Friday.
Geez, just got contacted by the eLearning Guild to do my "engaging" presentation for them in June for one of their online forums.
If I decide to do it, I'll probably be contacting those of you I "used" in my original preso. Want to make sure that you're okay with me "using you" there.
Hollywood and syndicated TV next!
I can hear the theme song now.......
"He knows his stuff, his learning's great, he's really not a scmuck.
So welcome him and clap your hands for Gerry Wasiluk".
<YEY - crowd goes wild.....>
Dropbox me the release form and I'll sign it...
Oh I almost forgot, What is the royalty you are offering?
Awesome Gerry! Can you make all of us "co-presenters" so we can get a free pass to see your preso?
Rockstar! I say we all do a Twitter backchannel chatmob using the hashtag #gerry. While he's presenting we feed him what to say.
Gerry - you simply watch the Twitter stream and we'll coach you through every word. [*evil grin*]
Seriously, congrats! I did one last year. Karen Hyder at the Guild is by far the most professional and experienced in moderating webinars. She takes care of all the magic in the background. All you have to do is talk.
I'm doing the eLearnChat in April on the same topic. Not a presentation so much as just a conversation - a "chat."
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
Kevin--I really like the idea of a chatmob. Love demonstrating the power of a community--especially this one.
Would "eternal gratitude" suffice? (That's what we say around here with tongue firmly in cheek.)
Or a promise to never use your photo for "Friday Fun."?
Hey Gerry. I'm in with a minor correction on the spelling of my last name (should be Harnett) : )
In the spirit of Photo Friday I strongly feel that that no one should be "safe" and therefore I will have to settle for "eternal gratitude". Hey hopefully you'll have to return the favor one day.
I am proud to be included (my ego grows bigger). It gives my dad something to brag about and he love to brag about his kids.
Of course, Gerry. Would love to help out using previously exerted effort
Reuse is king!
I would be glad to be quoted, especially for saying something smart (for once...)
ab
Now that would be an awesome course!
For me engaging elearing is getting the learner to THINK and DO. Learners also like to solve problems.
Personally I like games...not snakes and ladders games...but games that cause me to think, do and solve.
In a recent talk at TED ("The Surprising Science of Motivation"), Daniel Pink reported on the differences in effectiveness in extrinsic vs. instrinsic motivation, with the latter being most effective. According to Pink, the studies show three factors are important:
Translating these factors into e-learning features, we might try:
To do this, we would need to know something about what is meaningful to our learners, both narrowly (with respect to the specific course material) and broadly (in terms of meaningful purpose to which learners want to apply these skills).
Cheers!
-Ray
Hi all!
I'm also a little late to this discussion but I do feel there is still something to add. It has been inferred by other statements but nobody has really brought it up as a main point.
One big factor to make courses "engaging" is to make sure to take learning theories and styles into consideration. Not only is it important to have the "WIIFM" factor, but every person might have a very different preference as to what they want for themselves. This means that as instructional designers, we need to make sure that our e-learning is consistent enough to get the job done for the span of audience that we are intending it to go to, while also being versatile enough to offer something for people of every learning style.
I think this is also one of the biggest challenges in online learning - it is often leveraged as a tool to reach many many people, but in the process the very theories behind learning can be forgotten if you don't work hard to make it a part of the design - and a design that is the same for every viewer at that. Wouldn't it be something if we could at least ask a few learning related questions at the beginning of a course, after which a different template might be pulled depending on the user's answers?
It can be argued that good research practices should mean that you will know your audience well enough to basically be able to put them into a 'bucket" you can aim for, but there's no way to get around the inherent nature of us as human beings to filter things in our very own ways as individuals, even if we're trying to keep a particular stance.
I think this is interesting because the conversation between Reed and Bruce seems to prove this point although from a different angle (what you get from a course rather than the content). There can be theories argued either way. To me, this is an extension of learner style, although obviously it can be influenced by external forces like their company's training system and culture. In my experience, at my company, people care a LOT about the certificates. And most of the time it's NOT things that can be transferred over to other companies or programs.
So why do they care? It's just the culture of the company, even though I'm sure they are very aware that just because someone has a lot of certificates doesn't mean they actually can use (or even remember) what they learned for a particular job. They also expect any and everything to show up on their training record - even weight watchers meetings that they attended through the company (the company does not mandate that they document it). There are obviously other human elements at play here that motivate people to see these things as tangible events after the fact.
Also as someone mentioned, if the completion of the course - no matter how "good" it truly was from an instructional design perspective - is meant to give credit under an accreditation system, then a certificate is obviously a good idea regardless of whether or not the learner finds it valuable.
But, back to the original question and my point, I think the one of the best way sto make sure content is engaging is really pay attention to the variety principle and giving learners options. Although at times any one type of learner might not be engaged, hopefully the course can be designed to where many perspectives can be given in a time span that allows everyone to stay alert and interested. And then at the end, if a certificate is not deemed "necessary", why not just offer the option?
I think you guys just gave me the idea for my research paper I'm about to write... the implications of offering or not offering certificates for learning events (in terms of learner effectiveness, not taking into account accreditation standards and such). If we as humans simply retain information better, for example, when we've been "recognized" for the completion, perhaps, then it might be worth considering more seriously.
If it comes to fruition I'll make sure to share my final product with the group!
Chantelle,
I think your references to company culture could be particularly apposite - in an interesting way
Perhaps "certificates on walls" are just not appropriate in the types of company that I have chosen to work in, (mainly quite "high-pressure" sales-driven organisations)
Perhaps it is the people/peer-pressure in thise organisations that make the public display of certificates seem as a weakness, and therefore not important.
Perhaps Certiificates from internal courses in some areas of the Public Sector could not be seen as important when the room is full of people with Oxford/Cambridge degrees and post-graduate qualifications?"
I wonder how many of the things I see as "normal", (or not), or eLearning being "engaging", are in fact due to the places where I have chosen to work.
We all choose our perceptions to some extent, through the actions we make.
Linear online learning could be particularly "engaging" in one company or sector for example, if all they have had previously is paper-based learning - certificate or not.
Bruce
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