Freelance Heroes

Aug 02, 2012

Hi, and welcome to the "Freelance Heroes" thread, a place where Articulate Freelancers help each other. Got a question about freelancing? Or perhaps you have an e-learning asset that may be valuable to those "doin' their own thing"? This is the place to share--to give.

To start things off, I'd like to share a short list of questions that help me figure out what kind of training a potential client wants. (So often they have no idea what they want.) The list is far from exhaustive, but may be of some help. Looking forward to meeting you. --Daniel  

1293 Replies
Bruce Graham

Whilst I "get" the whole gamification concept, I'm still struggling to se it's relevance to ANY of my clients :(

I just have this little chimp on my shoulder that keeps saying "Suggest that and you lose the contract...".

I know people love a challenge...I know people love to be competitive etc...but sometimes you just gotta' get on, listen, practice and execute.

Really struggling with this one.

Bruce

Phil Mayor

Bruce Graham said:

Whilst I "get" the whole gamification concept, I'm still struggling to se it's relevance to ANY of my clients :(

I just have this little chimp on my shoulder that keeps saying "Suggest that and you lose the contract...".

I know people love a challenge...I know people love to be competitive etc...but sometimes you just gotta' get on, listen, practice and execute.

Really struggling with this one.

Bruce


We did it once

I can see this, the other issue is cost the game we built took about four days for one slides worth of content.  

Simple gamification is easy but complicated takes time and most clients are cost conscious by the time they get to me

Bruce Graham

Phil Mayor said:

Bruce Graham said:

Whilst I "get" the whole gamification concept, I'm still struggling to se it's relevance to ANY of my clients :(

I just have this little chimp on my shoulder that keeps saying "Suggest that and you lose the contract...".

I know people love a challenge...I know people love to be competitive etc...but sometimes you just gotta' get on, listen, practice and execute.

Really struggling with this one.

Bruce


We did it once

I can see this, the other issue is cost the game we built took about four days for one slides worth of content.  

Simple gamification is easy but complicated takes time and most clients are cost conscious by the time they get to me


We built a course that had a game in it. I see this as very different from "gamification", where people collect points, score against other people, but up some sort of profile based on accumulation.

I agree that game was wonderful, (and I still need to understand how the heck it all works!    ), but I would not class it as "gamification" per se.

Respectfully

Bruce

Bruce Graham

Phil Mayor said:

I have seen courses where people collect badges for completing seperate sections.

I think we even had an idea to hide stuff in slides.

Its not something I would push to clients, I am happy adding in games but worry that users would get too caught up in the achievements rather than the learning.


Agreed.

I have a nagging fear that many people use "gamification" because the learners are so far removed from the business, (because of crap internal communication etc.) - and designing courses that appeal to these instincts plays to them rather than justifying them.

Get people motivated about the thing they do day in day out, make them want to be involved, and learning/learning design becomes much easier (IMHO).

Bruce

Kevin Thorn

Hey guys, 

First, let's not confuse a 'game' with 'gamification'. Two different things and two different approaches. It all starts with the analysis of course, and then mapping out a potential design. I agree Bruce, it is not something I would come straight out and suggest to a client as a "design theme" as I would be falsely setting up expectations.

There are two types of gamification: Content and Structure. 

- Structure: The application of game elements to help move the learner through the content without alteration to the content itself.
- Content:: The application of game elements that alters the content or make it more game-like. There's more game thinking in this design.

Karl Kapp defines them better than I can and offers when and where you would use either > When To Use Which Type of Gamification 

Where I see the big #FAIL in this design approach is trying to design game-like elearning for the sake of it being gamey. Also known as "gamifying" content. It never works. Those that call them games such as the "Jeopardy" game is not a game. It's a quiz on steroids. A true learning game must start at the root instructional design level with game thinking and mechanics.

Gamification can be effective if done right. It's not about slapping a badge at the end of section/module in a course or "leveling-up" just for passing a quiz. It's about designing the learning path in such a way to engage and motivate learners "through" the content. That starts at the design phase of the project.

I've built a few courses using gamification and each client was extremely pleased with the outcome. Again, these courses were custom designed from the ground up.

Nancy Woinoski

Hi Kevin, I totally agree with you about gamification - there is a big difference between inserting a few game-style quizzing interactions and designing a course from the ground up using a gaming structure and logic.

I typically steer clients away from adding games to courses because they seem to want them to "make the content more engaging"  In fact, I don't think I have ever included a game in my courses. I would love to do a course using gamification but have never approached a client about doing this. My concern is that the cost would be prohibitive. So Kevin, I guess my first question for you is how much longer does it take you to design and build a course using gamification vs. one without? 

And my second question is when can we see some samples of your gaming courses? Would love to see them!

Nancy Connell

Nancy Woinoski said:

And my second question is when can we see some samples of your gaming courses? Would love to see them!


I too would like to see some completed examples of gamification built with tools like Articulate. My team has enjoyed reading Dr. Kapp and other gaming experts for years. While a lot has been written about what should and shouldn't be done as it relates to gaming and eLearning, very little is ever "shown" by the same experts.

Bruce Graham

I do not want this post to be misconstrued - it is not means as some sort of ego-trip.

Last week – I got a call. The call was from an agency who are working with a large financial company. “Could you come and see us?” Of course I would…

Trip duly made last Friday, business duly agreed - mandatory eLearning for over 230,000 people across 80 countries. Very nice, worked all weekend on the POC, (the bad part of being a freelancer!)

The important point here is this – the consultant who rang me had looked, in detail, at this site, and particularly at the "Freelancer Thread(s)". What drew him to contact me had precious little to do with “technology” or authoring tool.

The important thing had for him was seeing who had business knowledge, who could express themselves in terms of ID understanding and a general appreciation of the concepts important across all businesses. As it happens, the agency specialises in “storytelling communications”, so it will hopefully be a perfect match.

Yes – know Storyline (or your authoring product of choice) inside out, (or at least what it CAN do, and be prepared to learn fast…). But understand business. Talk the business talk. What we do is about creating a vision of business and behavioural change. Understanding that, (IMHO), makes this career choice infinitely more enjoyable, and certainly more worthwhile.

Web presence is VERY important, but what is so important is WHAT that web presence says about you.

Hope that might help someone out.

Bruce

Daniel Brigham

Congratulations, Bruce:

Easy to get bogged down in the various ID approaches and tools--when what is most important (usually) is the behavior change the training hopefully achieves. Of course, the client has to buy in as well. Changing behavior isn't fast or cheap.

As you all know, most e-learning courses are quickly discarded, because they do little to change behavior.

Anne Pead

Hi All

Just checked in here as I think I managed to unsubscribe myself to the thread (oops!) after posting about the Gamification course on Coursera.  So, apologies that I'm a bit behind on the conversation but I'd like to add to some of the comments already made with regards to gamification in eLearning.  There are definitely a lot of conflicting ideas (and opinions) on what exactly classifies as gamification and where and when (and 'if') it is effective.

For myself, I see it as taking game elements (the things that make a game work - such as, it's 'fun', engaging, motivating, etc.) and applying it to a non-game environment. I think as IDs and eLearning developers the biggest gamification element we are already using is 'storytelling'. When we create learning as a story for the learner, rather than just linear, online reading material, we are making the experience more engaging and sometime more fun (or at least, less boring) for the learner.  I would class this as gamification. You don't have to have all the fancy badges, points and leaderboards to gamify. And really, putting in a game, is not gamification and I would argue that most of the time making it a game will not achieve your desired learning goals. But using gaming 'elements' can definitely be helpful.

I'm enjoying the Gamification course to understand where gamification is currently being used and how it can (and sometimes can't) be effective. 

Daniel Brigham

Hi, Anne: a belated welcome to Freelance Heroes. Thank you for that insight regarding storytelling and gaming. Hadn't thought of a story being a game.

As for me, I'm open to anything that works: puppets, basset hounds, cancer, games, references to the band Rush, what...ever. Of course, the game developers have a lot to teach us. And we them.

I've been meaning to check out two references on this, and will list them here, in case anyone's curious and hasn't read them already:

  • J.P. Gee What Video Games Have to Teach Us About Learning and Literacy (2003) Macmillan
  • Julie Dirksen BAM! EEEEEK! POW! What video games can teach us about e-learning feedback (paper presented at the e-learning Guild Online Forum on Designing and Developing Online Assessments (2006, December)

Nice to have you aboard, Anne. --Daniel

Kevin Nash

Hi Everyone - I am looking for a Storyline expert to help with putting a professional "gloss" on the content we have already developed to a basic/intermediate level in Storyline. I am particularly looking for someone with coding skills that can help push the envelope and see what Storyline can really do. We have a limited budget but most of the work is done - we just need someone with the skills to make our by Supreme Savings" id="_GPLITA_1">e-learning modules stand out from the crowd. Please contact me at knash@aspenod.com with some examples of what you can do and let's talk!

Thanks,

Kevin  

Daniel Brigham

Question for the veteran freelancers:

What do you do (if anything) to pre-screen potential clients? Thinking about putting my upfront consulting fee on my site (the fee I charge new clients for whom I've never worked for), just to give potential clients a general indication of what my services cost. Or at least the entry fee, as it were.

Just trying to make my phone and email time with potential clients more efficient. Curious to hear what you do. Thanks in advance, Daniel (who today is the honest man from Mandrake)

Holly MacDonald

I haven't published my fee, but like Bruce it comes up very early in the initial meeting. 

In terms of pre-screening, here are some of the type of questions that I ask:

  • Do I think this client will provide an opportunity to add to my experience/portfolio overall?
  • Do I think this client could be a long term relationship?
  • Is this project a good balance right now (as in, if I'm doing a lot of e-learning development, is this more of a strategic consulting opportunity)?
  • How did they find me? (referrals have far higher close rate)
  • How scoped out is this project? - I try to figure out who is just fishing as they are usually looking for price and shopping on price.
  • Do they have budget?

Do any of those help? You've described a common challenge, but I'd be careful about scaring people off with price, unless you are really in demand. I think you need to communicate value to prospective clients, not cost.

Holly

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