If so, can you get courses to complete that have a final quiz? If you have, what have you done?
I can get AICC and SCORM 1.2 courses (with this fix) to complete but not SCORM 2004 (I'm trying 3rd Edition).
I'm guessing but it may be the same suspend issue that the fix above solves. Wondering if we need the same type of replacement file for SCORM 2004 and Saba?
Sorry, Gerry. If I had anything of value to add, I would've chimed in long ago. But because I don't want you to feel alone on this island, now I'm just saying hi Looks like John took a good thorough look at this. I hope Saba gets this resolved for you.
Yes, John has done a great job with the case. I'm 50-50 yet if this is a Storyline issue or a Saba issue or both.
Because Saba does SCORM a little differently (as the fix linked above for SCORM 1.2 mentions), it could possibly be a similar type of issue. Something is causing the course not to go to the transcript with a status of successful. The "passed" and completion status is getting recorded but, and this is just a WAG, Saba might be expecting something more or something different from the content to indicate that the learner is done with the course.
When I see this from the course enrollment, something is funny . . .
And I just love reading SCORM documentation for troubleshooting. Enough to cure one's insomnia in minutes . . .
Hey, Pete! What an adventure. I spent most of last week and this weekend on this and have made some progress working with you folks and Saba.
I can now get a Storyline course as SCORM 2004 3rd Edition to complete successfully and roll over to the transcript with Saba 5.5. However, the solution also means someone can launch the course, not complete it, and by doing one thing Saba has instituted for SCORM 2004 (which I think is dumb), get credit for completing it. Not good.
Saba oh Saba oh Saba oh Saba . . .
I just sent John in support a huge update on this with more detail.
Wow, thanks Gerry! I found your case and will continue following along. I have a feeling your patience on this one will pay dividends for a lot of users in the future. Thanks for taking the time to work through it!
I'm going to leave your case number here for my own reference (00306830) and continue following along. Thanks for all your help getting this sucker worked out.
Well, we just heard back from Saba on this and I've sent the info on to Justin at Articulate who's managing the case.
With SCORM 2004 and our version of Saba (5.5 SP1), Saba has this optional pop-window that appears that learners have to answer correctly, even after completing the course.
We're trying to not have the pop-up but then the course has to provide certain info to the LMS. I'm hoping the info I just sent helps Articulate resolve this for us. The content has to make sure that the attempt is not exited in a suspended state, and the Saba LMS must receive an ExitAll navigation request from the content itself.
I just hate that pop-up. Brain dead Saba feature, IMVHO.
What if a learner answers wrong? I answered "Exit and Finish" once after just launching a course and my registration went to my transcript as "Successful." Not good.
Between this and another Storyline-Saba case (trying to get content to work on iPads), I'm going "crazy." Problem there is Saba formally supports iPads with version 6. it should work on some earlier versions but support is limited.
Yeah, I hear you about the pop-up. I'm looking forward to your progress. You're fighting the good fight for more than just yourself. Thank you for that.
Hey, Jenny! Articulate just sent me a new file to try. Unfortunately, no love. In addition, resume did not work (and it was turned on in the player).
Also, and this may have been happening for a while, but I'm not seeing launch attempts getting incremented correctly. For example, I launch the content three times with my registration but when I look at my learner results, it only shows one launch attempt.
I'm seeing this also with old SCORM 2004 test content created with Storyline.
With Storyline SCORM 1.2 content with the fix described in the Articulate KB, launch attempts increment properly.
I've reported all this back to Articulate (and will testing again later today when I have tome to verify my results). Hopefully just a bump on the road to an eventual solution.
Thanks for the update! If you need some additional testing and eyes, I can help. I know we have Saba 5.5 but not sure if we're on the same service packs - but I'd imagine we'd get similiar results.
However, we may have another Saba-Storyline issue. Have you tried launching Storyline content (as HTML5 in SCORM or AICC) from your Saba LMS with something like an iPad? If so, did it work?
With my client's Saba LMS, only one of the player templates seems to launch the HTML5 content (the 3.x/5.1 Compatibility Player template). In all the other templates, the Storyline content freezes up as it begins to launch. No problems with the Flash versions.
Still working on this with Articulate and Saba. Every so often Articulate has me try some things--and so far they have not worked. And Saba edited the output of a test Storyline course I sent them and said it works for them.
Well, it sorta does but with a couple of wrinkles. Did some intense testing of that solution yesterday and have identified some potential Storyline anomalies, which I'm reporting back to Articulate now.
I have a solution that works but it (1) requires some editing of the Storyline output before insertion into Saba and (2) also in the course itself, directing how the learner exits the course: only use the browser windows close function to leave the course before completing and then only using the Storyline exit function when you do pass the course.
And no Saba pop-up window at course close. One YEAH!
Also, so far, have only been working with a course with a quiz. Need to look at the same for a course with passing by number of slides viewed.
This is feeling a bit clunky. I'm hoping Articulate can review what I've found and hopefully come up with something.
Thanks for the update, Gerry. I like progress.....
We have to remove the Mastery Score on all of our published files in order to get the tracking correct in SABA....so editing files post publishing would not be a stretch for us....
Let me know if there's anything I can to to help test. I'm feeling a little guilty you're doing all the work and I will win from it.
Well, be glad you're not going through this . . . . FUN?
So far, this one solution requires using "Is scoring" and the Mastery Score. We're pressing Saba for how to do this without those.
One Storyline anomaly--you have to use an exit button to leave the course at completion. If you close the browser window itself, the completion doesn't get recorded.
Hi Gerry, Does this mean you would not recommend using Saba with Storyline? We are getting ready to purchase Storyline and were thinking of using Chamilo but they don't seem to be playing nice together and Saba is the other option for the client. I don't have experience with Saba and am trying to see what I will be up against if we go forward with Storyline. Thoughts are appreciated!
One Storyline anomaly--you have to use an exit button to leave the course at completion. If you close the browser window itself, the completion doesn't get recorded.
We had the same problems with the SCORM 1.2 files and needed the update to the configuration file. I wonder if there's something in there that would be causing the problem.
Hi Gerry, Does this mean you would not recommend using Saba with Storyline? We are getting ready to purchase Storyline and were thinking of using Chamilo but they don't seem to be playing nice together and Saba is the other option for the client. I don't have experience with Saba and am trying to see what I will be up against if we go forward with Storyline. Thoughts are appreciated!
Hi, Laureen!
Not yet. I remain hopeful that with help from both Saba and Articulate we can solve the issues. It will just take time. And I intend to keep pushing things until my client says to stop.
Right now, Saba and Articulate play well together (with some documented solutions) for both AICC and SCORM 1.2 as Flash content. We also have a potential solution from Saba for Storyline courses in SCORM 2004 with a final quiz, although the editing of the published files to achieve the solution is not for the "weak-hearted."
The issue here, again, is with Storyline SCORM 2004 content and getting it to complete, especially without use of an optional pop-up window that Saba adds in later versions of its LMS.
After exiting an e-learning course, even one you have completed, the pop-up window asks the learner to affirm their registration status, a feature that I find utterly ridiculous and one the learner could get wrong--but which is supposed to be optional. Getting the pop-up window to be optional and report the completion without learner intervention has been the crux of the problem.
So if someone develops a long Storyline course with many interactions and quiz questions, and has resume turned on, we don't want to have potential problems with the Storyline data getting recorded by the LMS.
Behind the scenes, the Articulate folks have been very responsive and having me try things from time to time. And I keep passing on things we get from Saba to Articulate and also passing on the results of some of our own "experiments."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
We also have another case with Saba and Articulate on Storyline HTML5 content (AICC, SCORM 1.2, and SCORM 2004) freezing up at launch using every one of Saba's player templates for content (all e-learning has to be associated with a Saba player template)--except for the Saba 3x/5.1 compatibility player template. That template just works fine with Storyline HTML5 content.
However, my client likes to use the Saba Empty Player template for content. My client's Saba LMS serves external learners to its many product divisions and departments. And they like to use custom Saba deeplinks that permit learners to register for the course and not see any of the Saba interface, except for the e-learning. The divisions like to have learners launch content from their product websites and not have their learners deal with the Saba UI. They want things as easy as possible for external learners.
Newer versions of Saba (6.x) do not have this launch problem with Storyline HTML5 content but older 5.x versions do--and my client is on Saba 5.5 with no plans to update for the immediate future.
One of the things we may have Saba investigate to see if a patch can be created to address this for 5.x LMS's since the 6.x LMS's do have the problem. Another thing is to ask Articulate to see if they can address the issue, especially since HTML5 content from the current versions of both Camtasia and Captivate do not exhibit the problem with Saba 5.5.
I'll be keeping this thread updated as things happen. Stay tuned . . .
One Storyline anomaly--you have to use an exit button to leave the course at completion. If you close the browser window itself, the completion doesn't get recorded.
We had the same problems with the SCORM 1.2 files and needed the update to the configuration file. I wonder if there's something in there that would be causing the problem.
I sent some stuff to Articulate yesterday documenting issues with the exit button at course exit. If you close the browser window manually what gets posted to the LMS is different than what gets posted to the LMS using the exit button. So that is a potential issue.
The bigger issue, I feel, is how Saba interprets the SCORM standards and what it then does to implement that in the LMS. They do things a little differently from other LMS's. They claim strict compliance but I'm not one to know either way. I just want things to work for my client. We need to see if Storyline can accommodate how Saba does things. Saba's not going to change.
Articulate's AICC/SCORM/Tin Can code is developed by Rustici and Associates (aka SCORM.COM) and Articulate has brought them into the case (thank you, Articulate! ). So I've been working with one of Rustici's people and it sounds like he'll be trying to develop a solution. Saba's "Is scoring" function" may be a complicating factor.
Fingers crossed he can work some magic and make things work (and also easier to implement for developers).
One of the things he is wary of is Saba's "Is scoring" function.
Also, yesterday I tired a Storyline 2004 course with completion by number of slides viewed and putting into it the Saba solution for a course with a final quiz. It did not work--the course did not complete.
Starting to also wonder if replacing Saba's SCORM Engine with SCORM.COM's SCORM Engine might be a possibility. We'd also get Tin Can support with that. However, not sure if my client has the funds, or the will, to go that route.
68 Replies
Anyone?
Hmm, it's lonely on this island all by myself . . .
I do have an support ticket in with Articulate and the tech has been very responsive but we're now turning to Saba for help.
Sorry, Gerry. If I had anything of value to add, I would've chimed in long ago. But because I don't want you to feel alone on this island, now I'm just saying hi
Looks like John took a good thorough look at this. I hope Saba gets this resolved for you.
Thanks, Pete!
Yes, John has done a great job with the case. I'm 50-50 yet if this is a Storyline issue or a Saba issue or both.
Because Saba does SCORM a little differently (as the fix linked above for SCORM 1.2 mentions), it could possibly be a similar type of issue. Something is causing the course not to go to the transcript with a status of successful. The "passed" and completion status is getting recorded but, and this is just a WAG, Saba might be expecting something more or something different from the content to indicate that the learner is done with the course.
When I see this from the course enrollment, something is funny . . .
And I just love reading SCORM documentation for troubleshooting. Enough to cure one's insomnia in minutes . . .
Ha! I'll be curious to know what you hear. Keep us posted...
Hey, Pete! What an adventure. I spent most of last week and this weekend on this and have made some progress working with you folks and Saba.
I can now get a Storyline course as SCORM 2004 3rd Edition to complete successfully and roll over to the transcript with Saba 5.5. However, the solution also means someone can launch the course, not complete it, and by doing one thing Saba has instituted for SCORM 2004 (which I think is dumb), get credit for completing it. Not good.
Saba oh Saba oh Saba oh Saba . . .
I just sent John in support a huge update on this with more detail.
The "adventure" continues . . .
Wow, thanks Gerry! I found your case and will continue following along. I have a feeling your patience on this one will pay dividends for a lot of users in the future. Thanks for taking the time to work through it!
Hey, Pete!
Quick update. Have not gotten too far with this. Saba's response has been less than swift.
Justin has the case now and he sent me two files to try yesterday. No love yet.
Have also suggested a three-way meeting with us, Saba and you folks.
With fingers crossed . . .
Hey Gerry, happy New Year!
I'm going to leave your case number here for my own reference (00306830) and continue following along. Thanks for all your help getting this sucker worked out.
I'm tagging along here as well. My hopes and dreams are resting on Gerry's crossed fingers.
Well, we just heard back from Saba on this and I've sent the info on to Justin at Articulate who's managing the case.
With SCORM 2004 and our version of Saba (5.5 SP1), Saba has this optional pop-window that appears that learners have to answer correctly, even after completing the course.
We're trying to not have the pop-up but then the course has to provide certain info to the LMS. I'm hoping the info I just sent helps Articulate resolve this for us. The content has to make sure that the attempt is not exited in a suspended state, and the Saba LMS must receive an ExitAll navigation request from the content itself.
With fingers doubly crossed . . .
The little pop-up is exactly why I searched for this topic.....My eyes are crossed as well as my toes.
I just hate that pop-up. Brain dead Saba feature, IMVHO.
What if a learner answers wrong? I answered "Exit and Finish" once after just launching a course and my registration went to my transcript as "Successful." Not good.
Between this and another Storyline-Saba case (trying to get content to work on iPads), I'm going "crazy."
Problem there is Saba formally supports iPads with version 6. it should work on some earlier versions but support is limited.
Yeah, I hear you about the pop-up. I'm looking forward to your progress. You're fighting the good fight for more than just yourself. Thank you for that.
Hey, Jenny! Articulate just sent me a new file to try. Unfortunately, no love. In addition, resume did not work (and it was turned on in the player).
Also, and this may have been happening for a while, but I'm not seeing launch attempts getting incremented correctly. For example, I launch the content three times with my registration but when I look at my learner results, it only shows one launch attempt.
I'm seeing this also with old SCORM 2004 test content created with Storyline.
With Storyline SCORM 1.2 content with the fix described in the Articulate KB, launch attempts increment properly.
I've reported all this back to Articulate (and will testing again later today when I have tome to verify my results). Hopefully just a bump on the road to an eventual solution.
Thanks for the update! If you need some additional testing and eyes, I can help. I know we have Saba 5.5 but not sure if we're on the same service packs - but I'd imagine we'd get similiar results.
Hey, Jenny! Nothing new to report.
However, we may have another Saba-Storyline issue. Have you tried launching Storyline content (as HTML5 in SCORM or AICC) from your Saba LMS with something like an iPad? If so, did it work?
With my client's Saba LMS, only one of the player templates seems to launch the HTML5 content (the 3.x/5.1 Compatibility Player template). In all the other templates, the Storyline content freezes up as it begins to launch. No problems with the Flash versions.
I mention this here: http://community.articulate.com/forums/p/24238/133392.aspx#133392
Gerry,
We haven't gone down the path of using HTML5 for our content......so I haven't had an issue with it (yet).
Hey, Jenny! A quick update . . .
Still working on this with Articulate and Saba. Every so often Articulate has me try some things--and so far they have not worked. And Saba edited the output of a test Storyline course I sent them and said it works for them.
Well, it sorta does but with a couple of wrinkles. Did some intense testing of that solution yesterday and have identified some potential Storyline anomalies, which I'm reporting back to Articulate now.
I have a solution that works but it (1) requires some editing of the Storyline output before insertion into Saba and (2) also in the course itself, directing how the learner exits the course: only use the browser windows close function to leave the course before completing and then only using the Storyline exit function when you do pass the course.
And no Saba pop-up window at course close. One YEAH!
Also, so far, have only been working with a course with a quiz. Need to look at the same for a course with passing by number of slides viewed.
This is feeling a bit clunky. I'm hoping Articulate can review what I've found and hopefully come up with something.
Thanks for the update, Gerry. I like progress.....
We have to remove the Mastery Score on all of our published files in order to get the tracking correct in SABA....so editing files post publishing would not be a stretch for us....
Let me know if there's anything I can to to help test. I'm feeling a little guilty you're doing all the work and I will win from it.
Well, be glad you're not going through this . . . . FUN?
So far, this one solution requires using "Is scoring" and the Mastery Score. We're pressing Saba for how to do this without those.
One Storyline anomaly--you have to use an exit button to leave the course at completion. If you close the browser window itself, the completion doesn't get recorded.
Hi Gerry, Does this mean you would not recommend using Saba with Storyline? We are getting ready to purchase Storyline and were thinking of using Chamilo but they don't seem to be playing nice together and Saba is the other option for the client. I don't have experience with Saba and am trying to see what I will be up against if we go forward with Storyline. Thoughts are appreciated!
We had the same problems with the SCORM 1.2 files and needed the update to the configuration file. I wonder if there's something in there that would be causing the problem.
Hi, Laureen!
Not yet. I remain hopeful that with help from both Saba and Articulate we can solve the issues. It will just take time. And I intend to keep pushing things until my client says to stop.
Right now, Saba and Articulate play well together (with some documented solutions) for both AICC and SCORM 1.2 as Flash content. We also have a potential solution from Saba for Storyline courses in SCORM 2004 with a final quiz, although the editing of the published files to achieve the solution is not for the "weak-hearted."
The issue here, again, is with Storyline SCORM 2004 content and getting it to complete, especially without use of an optional pop-up window that Saba adds in later versions of its LMS.
After exiting an e-learning course, even one you have completed, the pop-up window asks the learner to affirm their registration status, a feature that I find utterly ridiculous and one the learner could get wrong--but which is supposed to be optional. Getting the pop-up window to be optional and report the completion without learner intervention has been the crux of the problem.
We're also interested in SCORM 2004 3rd Edition because that standard permits more data to be stored from the content. See this Articulate KB article: http://www.articulate.com/support/kb_article.php?product=st1&id=jrrv9j8vulu0
So if someone develops a long Storyline course with many interactions and quiz questions, and has resume turned on, we don't want to have potential problems with the Storyline data getting recorded by the LMS.
Behind the scenes, the Articulate folks have been very responsive and having me try things from time to time. And I keep passing on things we get from Saba to Articulate and also passing on the results of some of our own "experiments."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
We also have another case with Saba and Articulate on Storyline HTML5 content (AICC, SCORM 1.2, and SCORM 2004) freezing up at launch using every one of Saba's player templates for content (all e-learning has to be associated with a Saba player template)--except for the Saba 3x/5.1 compatibility player template. That template just works fine with Storyline HTML5 content.
However, my client likes to use the Saba Empty Player template for content. My client's Saba LMS serves external learners to its many product divisions and departments. And they like to use custom Saba deeplinks that permit learners to register for the course and not see any of the Saba interface, except for the e-learning. The divisions like to have learners launch content from their product websites and not have their learners deal with the Saba UI. They want things as easy as possible for external learners.
Newer versions of Saba (6.x) do not have this launch problem with Storyline HTML5 content but older 5.x versions do--and my client is on Saba 5.5 with no plans to update for the immediate future.
One of the things we may have Saba investigate to see if a patch can be created to address this for 5.x LMS's since the 6.x LMS's do have the problem. Another thing is to ask Articulate to see if they can address the issue, especially since HTML5 content from the current versions of both Camtasia and Captivate do not exhibit the problem with Saba 5.5.
I'll be keeping this thread updated as things happen. Stay tuned . . .
I sent some stuff to Articulate yesterday documenting issues with the exit button at course exit. If you close the browser window manually what gets posted to the LMS is different than what gets posted to the LMS using the exit button. So that is a potential issue.
The bigger issue, I feel, is how Saba interprets the SCORM standards and what it then does to implement that in the LMS. They do things a little differently from other LMS's. They claim strict compliance but I'm not one to know either way. I just want things to work for my client. We need to see if Storyline can accommodate how Saba does things. Saba's not going to change.
Articulate's AICC/SCORM/Tin Can code is developed by Rustici and Associates (aka SCORM.COM) and Articulate has brought them into the case (thank you, Articulate!
). So I've been working with one of Rustici's people and it sounds like he'll be trying to develop a solution. Saba's "Is scoring" function" may be a complicating factor.
Fingers crossed he can work some magic and make things work (and also easier to implement for developers).
One of the things he is wary of is Saba's "Is scoring" function.
Also, yesterday I tired a Storyline 2004 course with completion by number of slides viewed and putting into it the Saba solution for a course with a final quiz. It did not work--the course did not complete.
Starting to also wonder if replacing Saba's SCORM Engine with SCORM.COM's SCORM Engine might be a possibility. We'd also get Tin Can support with that. However, not sure if my client has the funds, or the will, to go that route.
This discussion is closed. You can start a new discussion or contact Articulate Support.